Would a box containing a flying object weight as much as the object?
Image by U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Los Angeles District
Familiar faces vie for table tennis glory
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Los Angeles District and URS Corporation have held ping pong leagues for several years and ultimately hold a championship tournament on the seventh-floor patio of their downtown Los Angeles office building.
This year’s Pingpong Extravaganza men’s championship was held July 26, featuring a chili dog lunch to raise funds for and promote membership in the District-sponsored Toastmasters club.
“Another great year,” said Ed Louie, member of Essayons Toastmasters Club 988 and One-Alarm Chili chef. “We had some scheduling issues, so only the men’s final was held today.”
In the men’s division, it was an all-District final as ACE-IT contractor Bee Cha won three sets to one against David Coltharp of the asset management division.
Corps vs. Corps lined up as the women took the table on July 31. Perennial finalist and 2006 champion Rosa Ramirez, programs and project management division lost a hard fought battle to Roxanne Vidaurre, engineering division.
This fun rivalry got its start when Ed Louie attended a Toastmasters meeting in URS’ conference room and noticed a ping pong table in the patio area. A URS Toastmasters member asked him if he would like a quick game after the meeting. After the match, the two decided it would be fun if the district and URS challenge each other to a friendly ping pong match. From that point in 2006 to present, it’s two wins for URS men and five wins for the Corps men. For the women, its four wins for URS and two wins for the Corps women. The Corps is looking for future men and women players to join.
“If this year is any indication, the men and women of the Los Angeles District and URS Corporation will continue this friendly challenge, and I may have to add another ‘alarm’ to my chili,” added Louie.
Question by Dereleased: Would a box containing a flying object weight as much as the object?
If you had a box with an object (heavier-than-air) that could fly (and, for this exercise, let’s say it can hover), such as a bee or a group of bees (or a helicopter, or anything). If you were to lift that box, would it weigh as much as the empty box or would it weigh as much (or more) as the box with the object at rest?
It is my perception that the box would apparently weigh as much as though the object were at rest since the object would have to exert as much downward pressure (or generate enough lift) to raise itself from the floor of the box.
For this question, please consider the term “weigh” to mean “require as much force to lift as though by hand”.
Feel free to answer in the comment section below
5 Responses to Would a box containing a flying object weight as much as the object?
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I think the best way to answer this would be to go out and weigh a box, the fill it with a known quantity of bees, shake a few times, and see how much it weighs!
Pamela S
October 3, 2012 at 11:30 pm
Pamela’s answer is good. Here’s a more practical experiment. Get or make a clear plastic box (try looking for clear plastic storage bins at the home improvement store or the bed and bath store.) Get a remote-controlled toy helicopter that will fit inside the box, and get a sensitive scale (a modern electronic kitchen scale should be good enough, just make sure you can read the display while the box is on the scale.)
Try it.
I’m pretty sure that your hypothesis will turn out to be right. In order for the helicopter to hover within the box, it must exert a downward force equal to its own weight on the air inside the box. Since the air is trapped inside the box, it must exert the same net force on the box itself.
pzifisssh
October 3, 2012 at 11:36 pm
Your thought is entirely correct. That lift force or whatever it is that supports it in air is NOT a one way street. There is always Newton’s third law that results in a downforce of some sort on the floor of the container.
Plus, Mythbusters already verified it.
http://www.yourdiscovery.com/video/mythbusters-top-10-birds-in-a-truck/
gintable
October 3, 2012 at 11:50 pm
A flying object should exert a downward pressure equal to its weight in order to remain hovering. The force required to lift the box is equal to the weight of the flying object, the weight of the gas inside the box and the weight of the box.
You’re absolutely right!
ARES
October 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm
That could lead you to the next question: imagine the box is large and weightless. Assuming the helicopter or bees do not hit the bottom, how much force does it take to lift the box at, say, 1 meter/second.
MidAtlantian2
October 4, 2012 at 12:04 am