Native Plants, Toby Hemenway, Gardens and Permaculture
www.permies.com Toby Hemenway shares his perspective on native plants. He is a powerful advocate of native plants. And, at the same time, is concerned that the passions of some other native plant advocates might lead down a path that is not as good for native plants. Specifically, the planting of exclusively native plants vs. planting of an edible garden. Toby also explores the idea of “native to when?” with a focus on douglas fir trees. Relevant threads at permies www.permies.com www.permies.com www.permies.com music by Jimmy Pardo
25 Responses to Native Plants, Toby Hemenway, Gardens and Permaculture
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I see a lady bug.
all4love1234567
December 22, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Very thought-inspiring about a subject that elicits many a perspective. Thank you:)
inremembranceofruth
December 22, 2011 at 4:11 pm
very good, alot of these thoughts reflect the same thinking I have had myself, nice to hear a little further thinking I had not progressed to. PS just a thought, i heard that corn is not entirely natural but the result of hybridization or domestication of a wild annual, so really is corn “native” to any climate?
tanyageyer1
December 22, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Nicely put. I used to make a similar point about choices like not wearing/ eating wild products, when your artificial substitutes are made in a factory that displaced a bayou somewhere else. I don’t think it’s enough to just hope that some land elsewhere returns to the wild. Nature Conservancy is one active option; also, we love to visit the farms or buy from local growers who share our passion for the land (with way deeper knowledge!)
EKWisner
December 22, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Thanks, MrKeen, for making my point! No ecologist would agree that corn is native, because it was carried by people from Mexico. Dandelions, wheat, and purple loosestrife came from Europe the same way, and they are well naturalized now. By your criteria they would be natives. And if corn is native to the SW, is it also native to the midwest, where far more of it grows? “Native” is a very slippery concept.
permacult5
December 22, 2011 at 5:33 pm
I get his point about perspective, but i think Toby shot himself in the foot when he claimed that corn is not a native. It is a native here in the Southwest, along with beans and squash. Sure, they migrated up from mexico, but they are still natives because they are adapted to the climate and the native bees. I plant my Indian Corn specifically because they are frequently visited by native bees (Melissodes bimaculatus). They are rarely visited by honey bees. But don’t go overboard with natives.
MrKeen101
December 22, 2011 at 6:31 pm
@ahnamay Although I totally agree that more food can be produced with certain non-native plants than with natives, I believe that a more than ample amount of food can be grown from native plants with no extra input of water, fertilizer etc. As to land use, I think there would still be enough land for everything else, besides food production and wildlife habitat, that we need it for. Also, let it be noted that I do not advocate everybody growing all native plants.
outdoorlunatic
December 22, 2011 at 6:39 pm
@ahnamay Who said anything about ready-made pizza? I thought we were talking about growing our own food, which means a lot of extra work whether you grow natives or non-natives. In answer to your question about “eating/pounding” camas or acorn flour, unless you’re a caveman I don’t think the pounding part will be necessary.
outdoorlunatic
December 22, 2011 at 6:39 pm
I am going to put some nice low maintenance “natives” in my front yard (Yarrow, monkey flower, sage, california fuchsia). Can anyone recommend some perennial edibles that might fit with those? Great videos
jitakyoeiJL
December 22, 2011 at 7:32 pm
green IS the new red, TRADE IS GOOD!
emcaub
December 22, 2011 at 7:37 pm
Even when taking a dip in the water, Toby is ever the scientist talking about our bodies’ water composition! Love it!
ahnamay
December 22, 2011 at 7:43 pm
@outdoorlunatic Perhaps it’s possible, though still not very probable, (How many folks will switch to eating/pounding their own camas or acorn flour instead of buying a ready-made pizza?) When we’re talking food production, I also imagine some non-natives are more efficient at producing edibles, thereby using less land and less resources (water, fertilizer, etc.) than even the natives.
ahnamay
December 22, 2011 at 8:05 pm
On our 1/3 acre lot we planted “native” trees and bushes last year after reading Gaia’s Garden. All survived the harsh winter. This year in our keyhole garden we planted heirloom tomatoes. We are not going to save the world, but our little suburban plot is better for it.
Through Gaia’s Garden Toby brought Permaculture to the least likely person, me, and explained in layman’s terms how to begin the practice.
Thanks to Paul for recommending GG as the first book for me to read.
TheNortheastAl
December 22, 2011 at 8:32 pm
good points
SuzyB1988
December 22, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Excellent discussion of a complex issue. “Native” is a relative word for plants, just as it is for people. We could say that Native Americans are the only true natives here, although my daughter was born in Seattle, so we say she is a “native” of Washington. “Native to when” is a useful question.
Thank you!
Lynn
bahrych
December 22, 2011 at 9:40 pm
Great interview, and on native I will stick with BIll Mollison himself on this, he says and I quote, “I use 100% native plants, they are all native to planet earth”.
I also like what Marjory Wildcraft says in her video, “If something invasive is edible, feeds my wildlife, provides me food or resources or fixes nitrogen, then please invade us”.
There is much wisdom in this video!
survivalpodcasting
December 22, 2011 at 10:23 pm
Yeah, that huckleberry thing stuck with me, too. It would be a natural disaster if everyone headed to the high country to collect the huckleberries they would need if everyone ate huckleberries. There is pressure enough already from commercial pickers–the bears who need the berries are having a harder time finding what they need. I don’t believe there is enough appropriate land for everyone to grow their own, either.
taylorbad
December 22, 2011 at 10:46 pm
Great interview, however on native I will stick with BIll Mollison himself on this, he says and I quote, “I use 100% native plants, they are all native to planet earth”.
I also like what Marjory Wildcraft says in her video, “If something invasive is edible, feeds my wildlife, provides me food or resources or fixes nitrogen, then please invade us”.
survivalpodcasting
December 22, 2011 at 11:43 pm
In my mind Toby seems to be almost totally overlooking a very important point. The idea of growing all native, and at the same time, all edible plants. I say almost totally overlooking, because he does mention eating native huckleberries and camass flour. However, this seems to be a side note. I firmly believe that, in many areas, it is very possible to grow all native plants and still eat plenty and very well from those plants even on urban and suburban lots.
outdoorlunatic
December 22, 2011 at 11:50 pm
got a lot from this, have a permaculure project in a beautiful nautral reserve…here in baja…and i germinate natives from seed as well…it’s wonderful to find someone with your very developed knowledge and interests. I grow my own food as well…combine conservation with some vegetable beds. let’s be friends too…
permacultureli
December 23, 2011 at 12:04 am
very practcial n sensible.
vidaripollen
December 23, 2011 at 12:17 am
@paulwheaton12 It was awesome to see his reaction on the video! What a fun time.
ruggedtraditions
December 23, 2011 at 12:47 am
Good stuff as always Paul. Thanks for sharing!
541treehugger
December 23, 2011 at 12:53 am
@gardenfarmer i made a comment not appropriate for youtube. 🙂
paulwheaton12
December 23, 2011 at 1:33 am
a lot of sense spoken here, couldn’t we share the joke at the end, made toby laugh, probably paul acting up:)
gardenfarmer
December 23, 2011 at 2:28 am